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Thread: Hams and 11m

  1. #1

    Default Hams and 11m

    I am curious to see where other hams are on the topic of 11m use. Here's where I stand and ask the hams to give me their opinions on the matter.

    I am a general class ham operator, but I also enjoy 11m. I never use my ham equipment on 11m (truth) and I ensure that the radios I do use on 11m are 12w or less on SSB and well within the emission standards hams go by (sometimes that takes some doing lol). I do not approve of, nor respond to, those guys running over-modulated broken radios into splatter-box amplifiers. I do not acknowledge their existence whatsoever as doing so would promote their horrible operating practices. There is nothing in part 97 about hams and 11m, yet, every time I mention on the 2m repeater about 11m, everyone gets all moody.

    Radio is a hobby with communication being the goal. Most of us hams started out on 11m. I like 11m because it keeps me in contact with ANYBODY, not just hams. There is a local 11m guy with a "learning disability" whose entire life revolves around his CB radio, he will never become a ham. I like talking to him as there are no other local 11m operators close enough to talk daily. Besides, hes fun to talk to... It troubles me to hear the sudden tone change in the voices of hams on mentioning 11m, especially when I get weekly emails from the ARRL begging for money to help stop the FCC from auctioning off our ham bands to the highest bidder. The FCC can't follow their own rules, yet, I seem to upset people more for something that isn't even a written rule.

    Am I doing something wrong or are the local hams wrong for giving me that impression?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon lind View Post
    I am curious to see where other hams are on the topic of 11m use. Here's where I stand and ask the hams to give me their opinions on the matter.

    I am a general class ham operator, but I also enjoy 11m. I never use my ham equipment on 11m (truth) and I ensure that the radios I do use on 11m are 12w or less on SSB and well within the emission standards hams go by (sometimes that takes some doing lol). I do not approve of, nor respond to, those guys running over-modulated broken radios into splatter-box amplifiers. I do not acknowledge their existence whatsoever as doing so would promote their horrible operating practices. There is nothing in part 97 about hams and 11m, yet, every time I mention on the 2m repeater about 11m, everyone gets all moody.

    Radio is a hobby with communication being the goal. Most of us hams started out on 11m. I like 11m because it keeps me in contact with ANYBODY, not just hams. There is a local 11m guy with a "learning disability" whose entire life revolves around his CB radio, he will never become a ham. I like talking to him as there are no other local 11m operators close enough to talk daily. Besides, hes fun to talk to... It troubles me to hear the sudden tone change in the voices of hams on mentioning 11m, especially when I get weekly emails from the ARRL begging for money to help stop the FCC from auctioning off our ham bands to the highest bidder. The FCC can't follow their own rules, yet, I seem to upset people more for something that isn't even a written rule.

    Am I doing something wrong or are the local hams wrong for giving me that impression?

    11 meters is for CBers. Concentrate on licensing for 12 meters, a challenging ham band with allowable power up to 1500 watts...

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by AE1N View Post
    11 meters is for CBers. Concentrate on licensing for 12 meters, a challenging ham band with allowable power up to 1500 watts...
    That is what I always hear... you should do "this" or "that".

    CB IS for CB'ers, true, but WHY can't a person do both? Nobody ever tells me WHY. I was not informed of a secret unwritten ham agenda to let 11m die off upon taking my tests...

    As for 12m, my license already covers that. I just don't know anyone that uses 12m. What makes 12m so challenging, less people to respond? 12m should refract better than 11m and still make it through the D layer... (seriously, what am i missing?).

    A real challenge is making a contact using 12w while 10,000 idiots illegally transmit garbage!

    EDIT: i know its not illegal for a ham to use 11m on an approved radio, ive been through part 97 front to back. my question is WHY are hams upset with knowledgeable operators being on 11m? i can understand a distaste for the radio-cowboys, but if all the smart and courteous people leave 11m.... that's when we have a reason to hate it.
    Last edited by brandon lind; Mon 24th Dec 2018 at 01:14.

  4. #4

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    Thank you AE1N for your time in responding. I should, however, have known better than to start a thread that plays solely on personal opinion. There will be nothing educational that comes of it and that's what a forum is all about. I can see countless points in support either case, and recognizing the potential for back and forth debate of little value, I apologize. Admins, feel free to wipe the slate clean on this one.

  5. #5

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    Our family had a trucking company from the 50’s into the 70’s and my father had a Johnson white face CB in his office with a Star Duster antenna up at 60 feet and I use to “play with it “ at night. Then when I got my first vehicle a PU I had a CB and some friends had them too. They came in very handy and we had a lot of fun, but after the movie Smokey and the Bandit came out it went downhill fast with fowl language, vehicle break in’s and even criminal activity.
    I gave up on CB in the 80’s and went to ham radio.

  6. #6

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    Yep, that movie did wreck it.

    At least where I live in northern Minnesota, it seems decent, that is until skip rolls in anyhow. We have many logging companies up here, and for the most part, the few locals that do get on keep it nice and clean. We take turns passing it around just like a ham net when there are enough people to do so. It died out for a while up here but its now making a small come-back. So far, we don't have any local problem with foul language and everyone does well at keeping it enjoyable. Skip is a different story, but I like the local aspects of it, and so far, I've yet to hear any local nonsense come through. I hope it stays that way.

  7. #7

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    I just noticed how i spelled foul : )

  8. #8

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    I see no reason why a licensed amateur radio operator can't enjoy talking on 11 meters (CB) as long as he follows the rules for both services. Unfortunately, a lot of hams blame migrated CB operators for the issues on some of the amateur bands. They're unwilling to accept the fact there were bad operators long before CB came on the scene.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by K6CPO View Post
    I see no reason why a licensed amateur radio operator can't enjoy talking on 11 meters (CB) as long as he follows the rules for both services. Unfortunately, a lot of hams blame migrated CB operators for the issues on some of the amateur bands. They're unwilling to accept the fact there were bad operators long before CB came on the scene.
    I was not around for the pre-CB days, but I can imagine that being the case. Several unlicensed people (many old-timers) have asked me to either put their "ham" radio on 11m or take an 11m radio and "add channels" to it. I've lost a bit of income giving these folks a piece of my mind for sure! I can see where the hams' frustration comes from, but I like to think that 1% of us are actually doing it right.

  10. #10

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    I was a CB-er when I was in my twenties. My brother and one of my sisters had CB's and we talked, made lots of friends and had lots of fun. CB radio piqued my interest in electronics so much, that I decided to take electronics in college. Years later, I got a job as a truck driver, got my general class ham license and quickly figured out that I could replace one of the two CB antennas on my truck with a ten meter whip and it would work on both bands. I liked AM so much that I spent most of my ten meter time talking on 29.000-29.100. Also, had a lot of fun using ten meter FM repeaters at 29.62-29.68. I still have my Ranger AR-3500 ten meter rig and used it just a year or two ago.

    Ben

  11. #11

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    My interest in radio started when on board my father's tugboat. I'd watch him use the MF and VHF marine radio sets. As I got older, he'd get me to talk to the harbour control or the pilots if there was no AB at the wheel and he had to keep both hands on it. (Old tug, radios were a good 6 feet away from the wheel). But I don't think I would have got into amateur radio but for the legalisation of CB in the UK in 1981. I got a couple of rigs, but soon got fed up with the inane, childish stuff that predominated. Not so legal 11m SSB CB came next and then a group of us said 'Blow this, let's get licensed and do it properly.'

    Once licensed for 2m and up, I still used 11m for DX and for chatting with the guys and gals not yet licensed. By then, the initial interest in CB had passed and those who were left were more sensible. Even when I got the Class A licence and started working 'real' DX, I carried on with 11m CB. Our local district council's Emergency Plan radio group used 2m, 70cm, CB and PMR for exercises, I was sometimes co-ordinator for that, with 4 active rigs on the desk! One 11m rig was converted to 10m FM.

    But I have to say that I haven't used the 11m or 10m rigs for ages - they're still up in the loft. If both bands are as dead locally as I'm told they are, I won't bother.

    I think it's true to say that CB brought a lot of people into the UK amateur radio hobby in the early to mid 1980s. I'd love to see the figures for the number of licences issued before 1981 and for a few years after.
    Current radios: VHF/UHF: 2 x Baofeng 2/70 Handhelds. VHF: Kenwood TR9130 2m multimode. HF: Kenwood TS930S-AT
    Home antennas planned: G5RV / G7FEK / end fed wire. 1/2 wave vertical for 10m. 6 element beam for 2m. Vertical collinear for 2/70
    Website for the 'day job': www.andrew-gilbert.com

  12. #12

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    I have no hang-ups with licensed radio amateurs using CB either. Back in the day, while not the majority, a lot of people using CBs had an interest in the actual workings of radio, propagation and so on, so having people with a bit more knowledge and experience, such as licensed radio amateurs using CB could help others who otherwise might rely on more dodgy sources of information.

    The only thing I would say to licensed amateurs using the CB bands, is that in most countries, CB radio gear must be type approved and carry the required markings, such as CE and so on. I haven't used CB radio since the 27/81 days in the UK, so I'm well out of touch with the legal requirements. But, I licensed radio amateur using amateur radio equipment would most likely be breaking the law and put their license in jeopardy if caught & prosecuted (Very slim chance, I know, but it's there).

  13. #13

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    It sure is nice to see there are others out there that don't automatically think negatively and get judgemental of the idea.

    Ive been working on turning the schematic from the user manual of my 1976 Midland 13-892 into a block diagram and alignment procedure. Good crystal filter, separate synthesizer outputs for LSB and USB... built very well. I recently discovered that the board is not exactly the same as the one depicted in the user manual and there is absolutely nothing online about it (it has the Cybernet EPO-0645-02 board), must be somewhat rare I suppose. I can't even find another one for sale, been looking for 2 years. So, I've been having fun this past week figuring out the inner working of it and I'm making good progress when I find the time to.

    I think part of the FCC rules governing CB radio suggests not opening them up (not sure), but the urge to get this thing back on the air is too tempting. I don't butcher radios though, I just want it in good working order. The caps are replaced, figured out all the mixer and tuning transformer frequencies, once I get the diagram finished and printed off, its back to the bench with a scope and counter! This radio puts many of the newer "type accepted" CB radios to shame! Once those bleeding clowns hear this barefoot rig, they will shut their broken radios off!

    73 and Merry Christmas!

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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon lind View Post
    I think part of the FCC rules governing CB radio suggests not opening them up (not sure), but the urge to get this thing back on the air is too tempting.
    I would hazard a guess that this is aimed at modifying, repairs that stick to original components should be legal.

    Back in the UK's 27/81 days, we used to replace the godawful 455 kHz IF ceramic filters with much tighter ones - it meant you didn't have to listen to the adjacent channels at the same time. Technically illegal, but as there was no chance it would cause problems such as TVI, as it didn't affect the TX side of things, no one would know unless you told them.
    It was quite common to get buzzy lines on our TV, as the guy two doors down ran a dodgy 50 watt set of boots into a full-sized -wave. He kept denying it was him, so I said I would get some guys from the Colchester Amateur Radio club to foxhunt the source of the interference and inform the DTI. It stopped after that. He also swapped his -wave to a DV27 hidden in his loft.

  15. #15

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    I'm falling off course here, but.... I think a foxhunt would be fun to try, I never done it. I've heard adcock arrays work well for that as the nulls are very sharp. I think it would be fun to hide a 10m transmitter that sounded like a numbers station (with a callsign of course) and tell everyone there is a hundred dollar bill hidden with it! That might stir some excitement into the local club! If it only transmitted for a brief period once a day, that would make it a challenge

  16. #16

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    Foxhunts were indeed fun back in those early 27/81 days, as were treasure hunts, with clues given from a central location. 20 or 30 vehicles involved in some of them. I don't think it would have gone down so well on 2m locally, though I know of a few who did it on 10m FM.
    Current radios: VHF/UHF: 2 x Baofeng 2/70 Handhelds. VHF: Kenwood TR9130 2m multimode. HF: Kenwood TS930S-AT
    Home antennas planned: G5RV / G7FEK / end fed wire. 1/2 wave vertical for 10m. 6 element beam for 2m. Vertical collinear for 2/70
    Website for the 'day job': www.andrew-gilbert.com

  17. #17
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    We used to foxhunt regularly with C.B. in West London back in the late 80's / early 90's. The local police used to stop us for weeks until they learned that Saturday night "those CBers" were out. Funny, I don't ever remember them asking us to produce a license...

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    You're going to find the occasional elitist and I see I am right in post #2. I also see cooler heads prevailing so far, which is great. What I find ironic is the ones over here causing the majority of the problems on HF are the ones licensed when you had to show proficiency with Morse. 20wpm ham lids are the problem, not the other way around. You will get the occasional CBer on the ham bands but by and far its old timers causing the ruckus.

    I dare the fellow from New Hampshire, USA to prove me wrong or himself right, because it will never happen. You keep enjoying radio legally and as you see fit brandon lind because you're doing nothing wrong despite protestations to the contrary from the vocal minority.

    My god man, this isn't 1981 and the Bandit isn't coming for your bride; get a reality check.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by WZ7U View Post
    You're going to find the occasional elitist and I see I am right in post #2. I also see cooler heads prevailing so far, which is great. What I find ironic is the ones over here causing the majority of the problems on HF are the ones licensed when you had to show proficiency with Morse. 20wpm ham lids are the problem, not the other way around. You will get the occasional CBer on the ham bands but by and far its old timers causing the ruckus.

    I dare the fellow from New Hampshire, USA to prove me wrong or himself right, because it will never happen. You keep enjoying radio legally and as you see fit brandon lind because you're doing nothing wrong despite protestations to the contrary from the vocal minority.

    My god man, this isn't 1981 and the Bandit isn't coming for your bride; get a reality check.
    Sure appreciate the confidence boost WZ7U!

    Tonight just happens to be one of those nights 11m isn't too enjoyable, nonsense-filled skip coming in from every azimuth! Its unfortunate nobody knows how to listen, take turns, make contact, and change frequency. Total chaos tonight! Not much fun at all. Even 10m has full on conversations on the calling frequencies walking over each other. There should be a radio ethic portion added to the exams.... a WRITTEN answer judged by multiple examiners, none of this often-memorized multiple choice stuff!!!!!

  20. #20

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    Yeah, it gets like this. Human nature and all. Unlike some, I'm into radio for radio's sake. The position in the spectrum is secondary to me.

    This always reminded me of how some hams look at CB. Some hams are the black on the right. Skip to 2:25 if you want to see what I mean.

    Last edited by WZ7U; Sun 30th Dec 2018 at 04:00.

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