Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: What you need to know.

  1. #1
    Sudden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rothwell, Northamptonshire, England
    Posts
    400

    Default What you need to know.

    It looks like we have another one who wants without looking.

    Maybe my fellow forum memmbers can put together a "How do I contact other amatuers" booklet then we could direct it the people requesting the info without even trying to find the answers themselves.

    1 - Look on your National Amateur Radio society ie:ARRL, RSGB or the WIA.
    Please add your own thoughts
    I'm leaving now to go find myself....if I arrive before I get back, please ask me to wait!

  2. #2
    GTGallop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona 85331
    Posts
    530

    Default

    That already exists in the form of several well written web sites. Maybe just a FAQ / Links section?
    N5MKH - The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper. Once we as a society lose that affinity we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself. Up is down and down is us and man is no longer an alpha predator.

  3. #3
    Sudden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rothwell, Northamptonshire, England
    Posts
    400

    Default

    The problem is they can't be bothered tolook at web sites.
    I'm leaving now to go find myself....if I arrive before I get back, please ask me to wait!

  4. #4

    Default

    one nice thing about a forum post is that if you don't want to answer it, you don't have to. If some one is not willing to "work" as hard as you think they ought to, nothing requires you to assist, you might even draw some minor pleasure from leaving them ignorant.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Obed View Post
    one nice thing about a forum post is that if you don't want to answer it, you don't have to. If some one is not willing to "work" as hard as you think they ought to, nothing requires you to assist, you might even draw some minor pleasure from leaving them ignorant.
    Obed said it very well. I rarely check into this forum anymore because I can't understand why the condescending members are allowed to continue to post such discouraging stuff. Also, any moderator should be able to see that new members are turning elsewhere, and they should be able to stop this elitist posting. This forum isn't realizing a fraction of it's potential. Welcome every ham, and meet their needs whatever they are. If you can't offer real help, please - don't post and just move along.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator pmh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bury, Lancashire
    Posts
    646

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by essbee View Post
    Obed said it very well. I rarely check into this forum anymore because I can't understand why the condescending members are allowed to continue to post such discouraging stuff. Also, any moderator should be able to see that new members are turning elsewhere, and they should be able to stop this elitist posting. This forum isn't realizing a fraction of it's potential. Welcome every ham, and meet their needs whatever they are. If you can't offer real help, please - don't post and just move along.
    Point taken.

    It is very hard to convey emotion in text, and I don't think many threads are posted to be as harsh as they often sound. Local meanings often vary.

    That said, we are known as a helpful community, and we should do what we can to assist, otherwise there is no point in being part of a forum.

    I do appreciate the frustration though. Many new comers do ask question for which a simple google search would provide many simple answers, and it does come across as lazy. That said, newcomers may want to post something, to get involved, and these are the only topics that spring to mind.

    So, please, let's try and be helpful and, as Marge Simpsons mum once said, "if you haven't got anything good to say about anybody, then it's best to say nothing".

    Kind regards,



    Phil

  7. #7

    Default

    pmh, you make some very good points. But how can someone appear "lazy" by coming to a community of people with experience to ask questions? Why would anyone search the internet prior to coming here? Some of the fast-finger posters just come across as mad or above learning themselves, although ham radio is a constant learning experience that never ends.

  8. #8
    Sudden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Rothwell, Northamptonshire, England
    Posts
    400

    Default

    Why would anyone search the internet prior to coming here?
    It could be thought of as try to find the answer yourself which would give yourself confidence to look deeper and have the satisfaction of knowing 'I sorted that'.
    I have a handheld which doesn't put out CTCSS tones for some reason. Based upon the responses I have had to questions about it leave me to think I have the only one in this galaxy. I do not consider the 'no' responses as people ignoring me just that they don't know or care. I am still looking for answers to this problem.
    I'm leaving now to go find myself....if I arrive before I get back, please ask me to wait!

  9. #9
    Super Moderator pmh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bury, Lancashire
    Posts
    646

    Default

    We are all from different generations, and are used to dealing with issues in differing ways.

    When I first came here I looked through many of the existing posts, where I often found the answer to my question without having to ask again.

    Many new comers to a forum, asking a question, may not realise they are the 10th person to ask that question in succession.

    That's what I think frustrates some forum members. I'm not saying it's right, but understandable.

    The modern generation do appear to want instant answers, or somebody else to put the effort in.

    Anyway, it's opened up a good discussion, and raised some valid points alround.

    That said, politeness and decorum costs nothing and, like has already been mentioned, members have the option to simply not reply.

    Kind regards,



    Phil

  10. #10
    GTGallop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona 85331
    Posts
    530

    Default

    Speaking as someone who was once new and green:
    1. I found the ARRL books conceptually and contextually out of date. I'm not a paper ham, I studied and read and passed my test on the first shot with a 100% perfect score. But I was ill equipped to start transmitting on the air waves. I was on 70cm Repeaters calling CQ CQ CQ.
    2. The internet was an even worse source of information. there is a lot of great info out here but mixed in is a fair amount of misinformation. Not intentionally bad information but not framed in the right context. An operator in the desert on a mountain top will have different experiences than someone deep in Sequoia National Forest. I was drowning in unhelpful information.

    I think in older times the right answer would have been an Elmer. But with Gen Y, Millennials, and now Gen Z joining our ranks, the concept of an Elmer is fading fast. It doesn't mesh with their learning style. And lets face it - we will all be a silent key one day and these kids will be the old seasoned veterans of the amateur radio world. There is a tremendous opportunity here for the internet to be the ultimate E-Elmer for all of these Young Turks coming up. There are some great YouTube channels and some great web sites (this should be one of them ;-) ).

    Look at it this way - Every time you snark or sass a new operator, regardless of how ridiculously dumb the question, you are killing radio. We had a chance to correct a young mind and turn them into a valuable asset and instead we are turning kids into lids and making bitter internet trolls out of them with a 10 year license in their hands to do as they wish with our radio bands.

    I know its hard to remember but we all asked dumb questions in the beginning too. No one gets ejected from the womb with a functioning knowledge of radio and for our first 10 to 20 years we let Hollywood fill our heads with lies about what radio can do. Hell most movies don't even have radios any more. Heroes on separate continents just speak to each other as if they are communicating via telekinesis and in different languages some time yet they all fluently understand each other (I'm talking about Marvel here). And now people don't understand why a $36 Baofeng made in China won't let you talk to China or understand Chinese.

    We have to right the ship folks, not abandon it and set it adrift.
    N5MKH - The only thing that separates man from animal is our affinity for toilet paper. Once we as a society lose that affinity we begin to descend back into the animal kingdom, and after three or more days you will find the food chain beginning to invert on itself. Up is down and down is us and man is no longer an alpha predator.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator pmh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bury, Lancashire
    Posts
    646

    Default

    All valid and interesting points, which leads me to ask how you go about getting licensed in the USA?

    In England, you have to attend a registered centre, usually a club, where you have to undertake a practical assessment signed off by an RSGB registered assessor, before sitting the exam. Questions are not public knowledge.

    During this time, students usually mix with other club members and also get some on air experience. They also have the opportunity to discuss aerials, equipment, and ask questions, etc.

    I think this system works very well, and gives some preparation.

    Kind regards,



    Phil

  12. #12

    Default

    In the USA, we study and then test. The first test is for the Technician class license, and I think it's sufficiently detailed to prepare new hams for their restricted privileges. But you guys are trying to deflect the point towards something else. For instance, pmb thinks capital letters in a post are not respectful. But look at the lack of respect shown by the some of the members on this forum that goes unchallenged. Bottom line; offer help or remain silent.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oulu, Finland
    Posts
    629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTGallop View Post
    Look at it this way - Every time you snark or sass a new operator, regardless of how ridiculously dumb the question, you are killing radio.
    So true, being a radio amateur isn't just about learning, it's about teaching and, to me at least, a good teacher helps someone want to learn - When I was at college, way, way back when digital communications meant radios had 7400 and 4000 series chips in, I struggled with the higher maths. Imaginary numbers for god's sake! Back then, my imagination involved improbable beasts and women in chain-mail and lizard-hide bikinis. Numbers had to be real. I also played around with aerial and radio designs. My maths tutor took me aside and asked what was the problem. I just couldn't relate to the likes of imaginary numbers, matrices and so on. When he pointed out that reactance j was just i because I was already dibbsed by current, and several other real-world applications for various other mind-boggling maths thingies, I started getting much better results. I passed. Not spectacularly, but enough. Fast forward a few centuries and one of my boys who just started school was struggling with his homework. I knew he was saving his pocket money and often counting it, so I told him to put the Markka symbol in front of the numbers and think of it as money. He caught on real quick

    Many new comers start by thinking information is delivered to to them in short sharp sound/video bites and they're told only what they need to know from a pre-determined programme - It seems many education systems just teach kids to take standard tests which are used to show how good the school is, not to set them up to face the real world on their own. I have heard, especially in the radio amateur world the phrase "There are no stupid questions", then a new comer asks something that should be pretty obvious to all and gets slapped down. Pure hypocrisy if you ask me. We must teach them how to ask questions is the first place, then how to find the answers and remember "The radio amateur is patient."

  14. #14
    Super Moderator pmh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bury, Lancashire
    Posts
    646

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OH8GAD View Post
    Many new comers start by thinking information is delivered to to them in short sharp sound/video bites and they're told only what they need to know from a pre-determined programme - It seems many education systems just teach kids to take standard tests which are used to show how good the school is, not to set them up to face the real world on their own."
    There are many legitimate questions somebody new to a hobby/discipline needs to ask. However, I do believe that some of the questions asked by some of the newly passed is because of poor initial training.

    Quote Originally Posted by OH8GAD View Post
    I have heard, especially in the radio amateur world the phrase "There are no stupid questions", then a new comer asks something that should be pretty obvious to all and gets slapped down. Pure hypocrisy if you ask me. We must teach them how to ask questions is the first place, then how to find the answers and remember "The radio amateur is patient."
    There is no excuse for disrespect. I have never condoned bad behaviour, and never would.

    I do, however, think some get frustrated by what they feel are members asking questions without any attempt to research first. Again, is this a result of poor initial trading?

    After all, you'd be quite disturbed if somebody who had just passed their driving test came and asked you to explain the brake pedal again!

    Threads are monitored, and I have removed some where the tone has dropped off. That said, I'm not the only moderator, and I can't read all threads.

    Kind regards,



    Phil

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •