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Thread: Use of shortwave/mobile radio to harass

  1. #1

    Default Use of shortwave/mobile radio to harass

    Sorry for the unpleasant topic. I'm trying to find those knowledgeable in how radio technologies such as scanners or shortwave radios might be used to transmit harassment. I'm writing on behalf of a victim. The goal is to understand how the technology might be used from neighboring buildings or how it might come in over mobile radio devices and to learn whether obtaining, for example, a scanner might help to detect the low-volume harassment and record it in order to involve the police. It's possible that radio devices are the targets of harassment over directional speaker.

    I would hope it would be interesting discussion and contributing to such discussion could really help to make such crimes more likely to be investigated. The police seem to put the burden of proof on victims in these situations.

    If someone with some expertise would be kind enough to respond privately, that would also be helpful.

    Thank you.

  2. #2

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    Could you elaborate? I don't follow the line of reasoning, here - "scanners" and "shortwave radios" do not ordinarily transmit anything at all. They're receivers.

  3. #3

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    Unless the harsassment is coming over a radio service such as FRS, CB, GMRS, Ham, etc, a scanner might not do much help. But if your operating on public airwaves, there may be rules, but ultimatly it is a free for all. What I mean, by that is even in ham we look down on certain actrivities. But the likly hood of reporting those activities to the FCC and getting the intended result is probably not that high. But if the harassment is over one of these radio services, the best thing to do is change frequency or turn it off.

    If we are talking telephones, which I assume this is what your talking about, I don't see much you can do. Over a cellular device, it uses refrequency hop, encrypts and all sorts of neat little things the telephone companies due to keep conversations as confidential as possible (unless the NSA wants a listen). However, if your friend doesnt mind, radio shack does sell a little electronic tool to hook to a phone to record telephone conversations.

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    This sure sounds like a Radio Frequency Interference problem with a person's Stereo system that is NOT properly installed with shielded Audio Cables. The Interference could be from an external transmitter on 11 m CB, or Amateur Radio in the adjacent building BUT the so called victim is responsible to work with the individual that owns such equipment per the Federal Communications Commission in the United States. That individual may be perfectly legal operating their radio equipment and it is up to the so called victim to seek out professional advice how to communicate with their neighbor. If the neighbor doesn't want to rectify his station or help resolve the individuals Stereo / TV System and you can make out his / hers call sign, then contact the FCC and open a RFI / TVI Case number. These problems some times can be easily solved by working with the neighbor radio operator.

    Dan
    WA9WVX

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabatier View Post
    I would hope it would be interesting discussion and contributing to such discussion could really help to make such crimes more likely to be investigated. The police seem to put the burden of proof on victims in these situations.
    Folks would really need more information than this. One does not know if you are in the United States or not. However, please read the following:

    First, reach out to a LOCAL club for help with Radio Frequency Interference and, if it is truly radio frequency jamming, their radio direction finding capability.

    If there is no LOCAL capability, please reach out to your Country's amateur radio union. In the case of the USA, this would be the American Radio Relay League and, at that link, you will find reference to solutions from other Nations. If you need further assistance, please feel free to email the League with more detail than you have provided here.

    73

    Lloyd, KC5FM

  6. #6

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    Thanks, all, for the great responses. So far as I can tell, having been in this situation for the last 16 or so months, the radio-based harassment appears to be one aspect of something called "property mobbing," which is intended to force a person out of their home, often to make the property available for real estate speculation. In my case, that does seem to be at least part of what's going on. In my case there seems to be the unethical members of a local neighborhood watch involved, along with a neighborhood overrun with speculation. There are other types of harassment involved on other communication systems, as well as monitoring into the house. I did find last week that there is a recipe online for using a CB radio with, I think, a linear antenna, to deliberately put sound on nearby sound systems. In my case, every time I turn on the speakers for the radio system, there is harassment. I turn them down, the sound goes down. The TV is also getting it. Seems like anything with a radio is susceptible. Yes, I have contacted the police but they don't know much about this kind of thing.

    Because it's deliberate and long-standing harassment that, especially because of the monitoring and stalking aspects of it, rises to the level of felony, I keep trying different things, either to call attention to the situation or to apply countermeasures. I had thought of getting a scanner because I hoped that it would discourage or allow me to record and prove some of the harassment.

    I got the Uniden BCD996P2. I hope I can use the RF feature to scan and automatically record with a modicum of programming. I hope I bought the right one. Seems like it had to be trunking and digital and it does sound like it can do the CB radio band as well as others. My hope is to program it to pick up transmissions nearby, programmatically, and record samplings of them to hard drive.

    I haven't started looking at what's involved in programming it yet though.

    I can check and see if there is a local club. Thank you for the reference. Note that the transmissions go over my own signals -- they overlap. When the police come or there is a police car near my vehicle on the road, the transmissions cease. When visitors come up the driveway, transmissions cease. So it's not that easy getting help, or even getting someone to believe me. I only found the recipe for using a CB radio to put sound on someone else's speakers in the last few days -- I didn't think of writing a radio forum until last week.

    I'll poke around for a local club. In the meantime, thank you for your feedback on the situation and, if anyone thinks the scanner I got is reasonable for what I hope to program it to do, please let me know.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabatier View Post
    Note that the transmissions go over my own signals -- they overlap. When the police come or there is a police car near my vehicle on the road, the transmissions cease. When visitors come up the driveway, transmissions cease. So it's not that easy getting help, or even getting someone to believe me. I only found the recipe for using a CB radio to put sound on someone else's speakers in the last few days -- I didn't think of writing a radio forum until last week.
    Do you have any recordings of these signals? Additionally, you don't mention your location - not even to a particular country.
    Last edited by WX4LTG; Thu 12th Nov 2015 at 09:38. Reason: Clarification

  8. #8

    Default Use of shortwave/mobile radio to harass

    Sorry I didn't mention. I am in Seattle, Washington.

    I bought the scanner in hopes of getting good recordings or at least being able to discourage the harassment by finally having a better way to record it.

    I saw several posts online about how people can use CB radio with a linear antenna to throw sound onto the sound system in a neighboring house and the scanner seems to be able to receive a range of bands.

    I also saw information online about transmitting radio signals using the same frequency as other types of radio, for example wireless radios. It sounds like there are a lot of options for spoofing and interference. You can spoof cell phone towers using satellite phones, for example and you can focus sound or direct it to a single person using a parametric speaker.

    Seems like radio presents a lot of options for people who make it their business to harass people out of their homes. In this case, the people doing it began to refer to themselves as "mobbers" who were "mobbing" me and I found there is such a thing as "real estate mobbing" in UN and Amnesty International documents. In Spain and in some other European countries, there is apparently a lot of real estate or "property mobbing" and it is a criminal way of clearing a property for speculation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabatier View Post
    I saw several posts online about how people can use CB radio with a linear antenna to throw sound onto the sound system in a neighboring house and the scanner seems to be able to receive a range of bands.
    What exactly makes you think that what you're hearing is "harassment," and not just QRM?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabatier View Post
    Sorry I didn't mention. I am in Seattle, Washington.

    I bought the scanner in hopes of getting good recordings or at least being able to discourage the harassment by finally having a better way to record it.

    I saw several posts online about how people can use CB radio with a linear antenna to throw sound onto the sound system in a neighboring house and the scanner seems to be able to receive a range of bands.

    I also saw information online about transmitting radio signals using the same frequency as other types of radio, for example wireless radios. It sounds like there are a lot of options for spoofing and interference. You can spoof cell phone towers using satellite phones, for example and you can focus sound or direct it to a single person using a parametric speaker.

    Seems like radio presents a lot of options for people who make it their business to harass people out of their homes. In this case, the people doing it began to refer to themselves as "mobbers" who were "mobbing" me and I found there is such a thing as "real estate mobbing" in UN and Amnesty International documents. In Spain and in some other European countries, there is apparently a lot of real estate or "property mobbing" and it is a criminal way of clearing a property for speculation.
    There is a possibility this is nothing more than unintentional interference or "QRM" as mentioned above. I had a problem for the longest time with someone in the neighborhood running an illegal CB amplifier in his truck.. Every time he drove past the house, I could hear him in my TV speakers and computer speakers. I also had a problem with the RF from my own station getting into my TV and computer speakers. It resolved itself when I got a new TV and added ferrites to the speaker leads on my computer.

    Also, what makes you feel you are being "mobbed" as you put it? If you have concrete proof this is going o, then you should consider going to the police department or consulting an attorney as to what your options might be.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by K6CPO View Post
    There is a possibility this is nothing more than unintentional interference or "QRM" as mentioned above. I had a problem for the longest time with someone in the neighborhood running an illegal CB amplifier in his truck.. Every time he drove past the house, I could hear him in my TV speakers and computer speakers. I also had a problem with the RF from my own station getting into my TV and computer speakers. It resolved itself when I got a new TV and added ferrites to the speaker leads on my computer.

    Also, what makes you feel you are being "mobbed" as you put it? If you have concrete proof this is going o, then you should consider going to the police department or consulting an attorney as to what your options might be.
    "Mobbed" is a term I use because the harassers called it a "property mob" and said they were "mobbers." There is a real estate investment website called "propertymob.com" which seems to advocate a "gansta" approach to real estate investment and complains about reluctant sellers. Plus the UN acknowledges something called "real estate mobbing" as a cause of "forced eviction."

    I looked up QRM. It's not unless in QRM, people are verbally harassing you, threatening you, telling you they want your property and to "move on" or "get out." I'm not kidding you. It goes much, much further, to hoaxes and threats. But it is verbal. And it began after an offer on the house I live in was turned down.

    Yes, I have tried to report it to the police. It's done very professionally and may also involve the use of directional speakers to limit exposure. When people are here or come up the driveway, the volume of it goes down. It is systematic harassment performed in a practiced manner and before it began, I was being harassed by members of my local neighborhood watch, including more than 100 complaints about legally parked vehicles, and so on. I do have documents that show the earlier, more mundane harassment that stayed outside my home. But when I tried to get a protective order and told the judge that I was having harassment put on my speakers, the owner of the one of the houses who seems to want this property ridiculed me in court and implied that I must be nuts. The judge was quick to dismiss. A few weeks ago, I found a "recipe" online to put sound on neighboring speakers using a CB radio and linear antenna. So that, and probably a lot more, is possible.

    I purchased a scanner, a Uniden BCD996P2, to try to use the RF capability to scan for close broadcasts in the CB range or other ranges. Apparently the scanner I got can automatically capture what it picks up and save it to memory.

    I think this is organized tenant clearing to make the property available for speculation. My neighborhood is overrun with developers right now and they're tearing down old houses and building much more expensive ones. It seems like the woman who has been instrumental in attempting to harass me out of the neighborhood got together with some developers to get a professional "clearing" effort. She seems to be a troubled person who has enlisted speculators in helping her to get rid of someone she dislikes. I know it sounds unlikely, but I have documents that show the involvement of the neighborhood watch as well as real estate speculators in an effort to push me and some others from the area. The others already left and it never got as bad for them as it is for me.

    The apparent radio-based harassment follows me too. I am curious if anyone has any ideas about how it would occur in a car. Would they have to physically follow me with a shortwave radio or put some device in my car to broadcast onto my car radio? I disabled the antenna in one old car and it dimmed the sound of it but did not completely get rid of it. If I turn on the radio in a car, and I mean an old car without wireless or cell service in the car, the harassment is right there. Like the house harassment, it goes up and down with the volume on the radio and I can mute it, at least temporarily, by pressing the "mute" button. And when I'm in the cars, they stop broadcasting it when I'm near police cars and, I think, vehicles like trucks (UPS or semi trucks) that are probably likely to have CB or other radio, so far as I gather.

    I have been trying to get the city to consider racketeering charges to open an investigation since it is very difficult to prove radio harassment or other forms of "invisible" harassment, especially when the people doing it are very careful not to do it when anyone else in near the house. I read online that it might be possible that CB radio harassment using a linear antenna would affect nearby houses too and am hoping this is the case. Finally a few houses in the neighborhood changed hands, one of them across from one of the houses where the harassment comes from, and I think they are now having to be cautious about whenever those new residents come out of their homes. But, as I have learned after being in this situation for more than 18 months, most people know nothing about radio and when you say, "I hear harassment on my speakers," well, it doesn't tend to get the help you need. Truly, this is a pretty nasty situation and involves multiple felonies. I am trying very hard to get the police to request FBI intervention.

    In the meantime, if anyone has any ideas about whether they would have to be following me somehow to put the same harassment onto the sound systems in any vehicle, I'd be gratified to hear ideas. The scanner I got can be used as a mobile radio so once I get it programmed, apparently, all I need to do if figure out a powerpack for it if it doesn't take batteries, then I can drive around attempting to detect and record the harassment. If it just makes them show more caution and buys me more time until I can get the police involved, that'll be fine. If it cuts down the amount of time for which I have to hear harassment every day, I would be gratified.

    Thank you.

  12. #12

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    Did you forget to take your Zoloft? Your sounding like a Paranoid Schizophrenic....

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

  13. #13

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    Sabatier,

    Since you have the Scanning Receiver, I suggest to program the unit for the following frequency range 25.0000 27.9950 MHz Mode: AM and use a means of Voice Recording to capture whatever is being transmitted, i.e. your computer or an older cassette tape recorder, extend the telescopic antenna all the way out as this receiver has a .4 microvolt sensitivity on this frequency range, you're not going to do any better than that for AM. The scanning receiver is NOT capable of recording Voice or Noises in its memory unit the way I've read the electrical specifications.

    The individual(s) using the Citizens Band transceivers could be using an external RF Linear Amplifier (Illegally) to boost the RF signal and cause the unwanted Interference to your home.

    I have another question about yourself rather personal, of what ethnicity are you, Caucasian, African-American, Chinese or Asian, Middle Eastern Indian, Mexican or South American or Arabic? Most west coast cities in the United States have a rich diversification of people and this is why I ask.

    You stated that you had your home up for sale but turned down the first financial offer and ever since this took place, you've been harassed by some one or Real Estate organization.

    Is your home still on the market to be sold?

    Have you ever thought that perhaps your Real Estate Agent might be behind this problem?

    Why haven't you sought out a Lawyer for assistance?

    Why haven't you sought out a Private Detective to help you find the individual(s) causing you these problems?

    You've come to this Ham Radio Forum seeking advice but us Amateur Radio Operators are here to help fellow Amateur Radio Operators on technical issues pertaining to their radio equipment, antennas, studying books / classes to up grade their licenses, and operating skills.

    This Ham Radio Forum is NOT a catch all for every problem that exist in the world ... I'm not even sure how many members live out in the Seattle, Washington area as the Forum is located in the United Kingdom, England to be exact. Our members including myself have tried hard to figure out your complaint but haven't witnessed what we have recommended. I shall also mention that our own Federal Communications Commission in the United States doesn't respond to Citizens Band complaints. Incidentally Citizens Band is NOT an Amateur Radio Authorized Band to operate, like wise are the Commercial Business Bands. The more you complain, the less we will listen.

    Dan
    WA9WVX

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabatier View Post
    It goes much, much further, to hoaxes and threats. But it is verbal. And it began after an offer on the house I live in was turned down.
    Is there a particular reason you haven't been able to record what you're hearing without the scanner? Any modern smartphone should be able to record some audio, you can post it somewhere, and link it here.

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    The more you complain, the less we will listen.

    I agree with Dan's statement
    I'm leaving now to go find myself....if I arrive before I get back, please ask me to wait!

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    You could try qrz.com or even eham, but please leave a link here so we can follow the story.
    73
    Andy

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    Having done a little more research, I believe your best bet is going to be to call the FCC. "For general inquiries and complaints please call 1-888-CALL-FCC (1-888-225-5322)."

    There is a field office in Seattle. If there's actual radio interference going on, they'd find it.

    That said, I don't think anyone posting on this thread can actually help you any further.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabatier View Post
    Sorry for the unpleasant topic. I'm trying to find those knowledgeable in how radio technologies such as scanners or shortwave radios might be used to transmit harassment. I'm writing on behalf of a victim. The goal is to understand how the technology might be used from neighboring buildings or how it might come in over mobile radio devices and to learn whether obtaining, for example, a scanner might help to detect the low-volume harassment and record it in order to involve the police. It's possible that radio devices are the targets of harassment over directional speaker.

    I would hope it would be interesting discussion and contributing to such discussion could really help to make such crimes more likely to be investigated. The police seem to put the burden of proof on victims in these situations.

    If someone with some expertise would be kind enough to respond privately, that would also be helpful.

    Thank you.

    I have been targeted by gang-stalkers using physical and electronic means of harassment. The cheaper method to use is a voice recorder with an external boom microphone. Place the boom microphone on or near object sound is heard from, such as head (use baseball cap to hold in place). Other methods include cheap radio frequency counters and detectors, and RTL-SDR devices to locate and record the detected frequency. Beware the normal signals are difficult to detect with RF scanners because the harassment hides in the natural noise that already exists, such as a local radio station. I have been looking into potential satellites being used as well due to difficulty in detecting the transmission signal, similarly to RF devices not detecting GPS satellite signals due to modulation and so forth.

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    (Moved to Junk Box forum as not directly Amateur Radio)

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  20. #20

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    This is plain strange! The idea of radio bullying as a tool to encourage people moving out of property has some pretty major problems with the science. You cannot guarantee the results of your efforts. You could send 1000W of CB signal and some people's home electronics would not bat an eyelid, especially now we're digital where interference often simply pixelates, or at worse shuts off the receiver totally. The RF could possibly get into the system, and possibly be rendered out as audio, at a whisper or full volume - possibly? Very unreliable unless you multiply the power up and up, and that means BIG antennas and a signal easily detected by the authorities. It's very unreliable in terms of a weapon. for it to be targeted you need directional antennas, or proximity - so a car or other vehicle outside with prominent antennas. I cannot think of any reliable way to do this without prominence and easy detection by the authorities. A scanner is useful, but what would be more useful is a meter that detects RF energy - those folk convinced cellphone towers kill you have them, they can detect the low level fields from a TV across the room, so should let you find the source of any RF energy in the area - once you confirm it's presence, you can use the scanner to find them. There is a sense of danger in the posts though. Somebody with the physical and financial resources to do this is not a person or entity to be trifled with. Especially in a country that has guns everywhere. It's also a very ineffective form of intimidation, because you do not know the technical effectiveness and you don't know the personal effectiveness. It also generates evidence, which a quiet threat in the ear of the victim doesn't. Why would anyone go to such elaborate and expensive lengths with a potentially compromised technique that cannot be checked for effectiveness?

    If you have a recording of the threat, give it to the police, who with the evidence, should investigate. Personally - I'm sceptical.

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